Hounslow Council

Agenda and minutes

Venue: Open Area, Lampton Park Conference Centre (Civic Centre), Lampton Road, Hounslow

Contact: Frances Nwanodi by phone on 020 8583 2064 or by email at  frances.nwanodi@hounslow.gov.uk 

No. Item


Welcome and Apologies for Absence - 19:00 to 19:05


The Chair, Mohammad Chaudhury, welcomed members to the meeting, in particular Wasif Bhatia (Speak Out in Hounslow); Det Ch Supt Carl Bussey (Hounslow Police); and Nada Jarche (Hounslow Race and Equality Council) who were attending their first Hounslow Community and Police Consultative Group (CPCG) meeting.


Det Ch Supt Bussey said that it was a pleasure to be working in the London Borough of Hounslow (LBH) again.  Since he left LBH nine years ago he had spent time working in a number of Central Units.  He intended to build on the strong community and partnership working in LBH in order to make Hounslow Police the best performing borough in terms of crime reduction.  Lessons learnt from policing London Borough of Hillingdon would be implemented in LBH.   Det Ch Supt Bussey was proud of the team he had inherited.


Apologies for absences were noted.



Minutes of the Meeting held on 14th May 2012 and Matters Arising - 19:05 to 19:10 pdf icon PDF 90 KB


The minutes of the meeting held on 14th May 2012 were reviewed.  Under minute 11 ‘Hume House’ needed to be replaced with ‘Cumbe House’.  Subject to this amendment, the minutes were signed as a true and accurate record of the meeting.  There were no matters arising.




MPS Presentation: Local Policing Model - 19:10 to 19:20 pdf icon PDF 162 KB


Acting C I Rob Wilson delivered a presentation (agenda pack pages 6 to 17) about the Local Policing Model which was being introduced in order to improve the performance of the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS).  At present the MPS was not performing well in comparison to other police forces across England and Wales.   The MPS aimed to be in the top half of all forces for 80% of the performance indicators.


Neighbourhoods and communities would remain at the heart of the Local Policing Model however officers would react more swiftly towards intelligence and work more flexibly.  Whilst confirmation of numbers had not been received it was expected that there would still be two police constables (PCs) and three police community safety officers (PCSOs) for each ward.  Victim care would remain a top priority.


Wards would be clustered around inspectors, with five wards per inspector.  The integrated neighbourhood police teams would tackle crimes such as anti-social behaviour (ASB), car crime and bike crime.  They would continue to work on local priorities that were set by Safer Neighbourhood Panels (SNPs). 


The Criminal Investigation Department (CID) would remain at Hounslow Police Station with responsibility for complex / serious crime.  Grip and Pace meetings had been established and were working to ensure police officers were responding to intelligence and being tasked on a twenty-four hour basis to tackle crime and offenders.


Local Police officers’ rotas were being changed to improve presence over the cluster wards over a greater range of times.


The following information arose out of questions and answers.


Acting CI Rob Wilson assured members that cross-border crime was being taken very seriously.   Discussion about cross-border crime occurred at Commander Jones’ weekly meetings with the Borough Commanders in the North-West.  Those responsible for a series of night time robberies in Chiswick had been apprehended in Richmond recently.


The new Grip and Pace meetings included an intelligence officer who worked sixteen hours a day to analyse and, where necessary, act upon any intelligence received by PCs and PCSOs.


In response to a question about officer levels for wards in the West Area, police numbers during the Olympics and changes in the detail provided about policing levels in the local policing model, Acting CI Wilson explained that the variation in detail about the Local Policing Model had arisen in part from uncertainties about resources.  The reduced number of PCs and PCSOs at the Ward level was due to thirty-three PCSOs taking up further police training opportunities.  However twenty-eight new PCs and three new PCSOs had recently joined Hounslow Police – more new PCSOs would follow.  The final figure for Sergeants at ward level had yet to be confirmed. 


Whilst Safer Neighbourhood Team (SNT) officers might be drawn into policing the Olympics the additional twenty-eight PCs would be used to tackle burglary and robbery with the serious crime unit.  There was also a reserve stand by unit that would be tasked to work in the borough although the unit  ...  view the full minutes text for item 18.


MPS Presentation: Tasers - 19:20 to 20:00


Sergeants Harding and Byfield delivered an interactive presentation about Taser using video clips to help generate discussion and illustrate points.


Tasers have been in use since 2003.  They were introduced to breach the gap between using a baton and a gun to tackle serious incidents; reduce injuries to offenders and police; and enable resolving such incidents quickly with minimal officers involved.


At present the Territorial Support Group (TSG) and the Fire Arms Unit had access to tasers.  However following a recent review a decision was reached to have forty officers per borough trained in the use of tasers.  A member of the senior leadership team in each borough would have overall responsibility for the deployment of tasers in a borough.


Before an officer would be certified to use a taser he or she would have to pass both a fitness and eye test; have current emergency life support certification then undergo a taser training course.  At present 25% of taser trainees were not successfully completing the training.


Much of the negative publicity about tasers was inaccurate.  They had not been a case, (backed up by medical findings), where a death had been directly attributed to taser.  Tasers acted as deterrents psychologically and physiologically.  Tasers were bright yellow and used a red light sighting system which both helped to subdue people acting aggressively.  This effect was supported by the fact that whilst TSG officers had drawn out a taser 1,300 times, there had only been 120 taser discharges – figures based on data collated from 2007 onwards.  A taser discharge worked by incapacitating skeletal muscles.  This was a more reliable way of ‘calming’ a threatening person than using techniques learnt on officer safety training that depended on a person’s pain threshold that could be influenced by other factors such as drug use.


There was a national decision model in place to guide taser use which included using information available to make a threat assessment before taking any action.  Although it was noted that taser users often had a very limited time to make a decision and in certain circumstances it might not be appropriate to warn a person that a taser might be used.


The Dataport system which was contained within each taser cartridge recorded the time, date and duration of a taser discharge.  This information was downloaded on a monthly basis and provided an audit trail for taser usage.


Following the discharge of a taser, officers had to manage the scene (collect forensic evidence); complete a form 6624; and ensure the person who experienced a taser discharge was examined by a doctor.


The following points arose out of questions and answers:

Deployed taser cartridges were recovered by officers and not re-used.


Extensive work in the UK and USA had shown that pacemakers were able to withstand the use of tasers as they were designed to be used with defibrillators that had a higher output than tasers. 


A variety of circumstances could lead to a person having an epileptic  ...  view the full minutes text for item 19.


Police Progress Update - 20:15 to 20:25 pdf icon PDF 244 KB

  • Safer Neighbourhood Team Reports
  • Crime Maps
  • Stop & Search Data
  • Complaints Data (extract for North West Area only)

Additional documents:


Acting CI Rob Wilson delivered the Police Progress Update (agenda pack pages 50 – 68) to the Group, focussing on Crime Prevention, Crime Detection and Borough Crime Maps.


In relation to Crime Prevention, figures for most serious violence, assault with injury, knife enabled crime, domestic violence and residential burglary were on a downward trend.  Moreover, Victim based crime was down.  Gun enabled crime was stable.  Homophobic crime was on an upward trend but this might be the result of improved reporting.  Robbery, theft from motor vehicles and theft of motor vehicles were on an upward trend.  Resources were being channelled towards Hounslow Town Centre to tackle robbery.


In relation to Crime Detection, in comparison to the last year’s statistics, rates for detecting residential burglary and theft from motor vehicle had improved.  


The Borough crime maps showed that there was a residential burglary hotspot around Hounslow Town Centre; a street crime hotspot in the Hounslow West Area and theft from motor vehicle hotspots continued to be centred on Heston, Cranford and Chiswick.


The following points arose out of questions and answers:

The deployment of SNTs did not solely depend on the identification of crime hotspot areas, rather SNTs were deployed according to the intelligence being received on a daily basis.  This meant that areas that were not crime hotspots were not left with out a SNT presence.


It was acknowledged that the police crime statistics relied on victims of crime reporting incidents.  It was important to encourage victims to report crimes.  They could also report crimes to their local SNTs.


A public attendee who was resident in Isleworth commented that he had never witnessed a street robbery.  It was noted that this was probably because LBH was one of the safest London boroughs and Isleworth boarded the safest London borough.


There had been a number of burglaries in the Hounslow Heath and Hounslow West areas.  In some cases doors had been removed from hinges.  Also, the police had taken up to an hour and a half to attend to some of the burglaries.  Hounslow Police had been pushing resources into tackling residential burglary, targeting known offenders and providing crime prevention advice.  Hounslow Police’s Senior Leadership Team (SLT) had been monitoring response times and further information would be taken outside of the meeting as acceptable response times were 15 minutes to an emergency and within an hour to a non-emergency.  Also, members of Hounslow Police’s SLT had been ringing victims of crime to find out whether they had been satisfied with the level of care they had received from police officers.


In response to a request for more police visibility on the streets, Det Ch Supt Bussey commented that over a 35 year period an officer was only likely to come across one crime in progress.  There were more effective ways of using police resources, especially when considering that thieves dispose of stolen goods within thirty minutes of obtaining them.


A public attendee complained about the unwillingness of a police officer  ...  view the full minutes text for item 20.


Police Community Consultation - Open Questions and Discussion (Group) - 20:25 to 20:35


Cllr Collins had sent in a written question asking for details of how many ‘on the spot’ penalty notices and arrests had been affected since the new cycle lane network had been implemented in the borough as it appeared that the problem of footway cycling at speed had worsened. 


Acting CI Rob Wilson responded that there had only been two fixed penalty notices issued but this did not include figures for those issued by the Safer Transport Team.


Police Community Consultation - Open Questions and Discussion (Public) - 20:35 to 20:45

Members of the Group or members of the public may raise matters regarding local policing. A more effective response can be provided if advance notice is given to the Secretary before 1pm on the day of the meeting. A question paper is enclosed with the agenda.


Questions asked by members of the public had been included in the agenda items where they arose and were responded to.


London Wide Update (including minutes where available) pdf icon PDF 150 KB

  • June 2012 LCP2 Newsletter


Mohammad Chaudhury updated members on the following issues that had arisen out of the last London Communities Police Partnership (LCP2) Chairs Forum and meeting with the Police Commissioner:

  • The Police Commissioner remained committed to local policing similar to the SNT model.
  • There was a need for the MPS to make efficiency savings.
  • The Police Commission was relaxed about the use of tasers, baton rounds and water cannons as an effective way of dispersing of significant crowds.
  • All secondary schools were to have an MPS officer attached to them if they requested one
  • SNTs would be working more flexibly around town centres and crime hotspots


There had been a request from the Community Consultative Forum (CCF) which acted as a community engagement forum for the MPS Central Communication Command centres, for a representative from the Hounslow CPCG to attend its meetings.  It was AGREED that Chris Boucher would attend CCF meetings with John Rowntree deputising as and when needed.



i.                    Frances Nwanodi to forward Chris Boucher and John Rowntree’s contact details to the CCF


Mayor's Office for Policing and Crime (including newsletters where available) pdf icon PDF 301 KB

  • April 2012 ICV Newsletter attached


Mohammad Chaudhury referred members to the ‘draft report on improving the MPS’s system of obtaining community advice’ which had been circulated electronically to members and was available in hard copy format at the meeting.  The report was building on the Mayor of London’s election pledge to disband CPCGs and Independent Advisory Groups (IAGs) and replace them with an eight person board.  Group members were requested to submit any comments to Mohammad Chaudhury by Thursday 5th July so he could prepare a response for the Hounslow CPCG.



i.                    Members to provide Mohammad Chaudhury with their comments on the ‘draft report on improving the MPS’s system of obtaining community advice’ by Thursday 5th July


Date and Venue of Next Meeting - 7pm on Monday 24th September in the Open Area, Lampton Park Conference Centre


The date and venue of September’s Group meeting was noted.


Mohammad Chaudhury explained that Councillors who were representing their Area Committees on the Group had highlighted the clash between Group meetings and other Council meetings.  The Group meeting calendar needed to be reviewed to avoid such clashes.



i.                    Frances Nwanodi to suggest alternative Group (and where necessary) Executive meeting dates


Any Other Business pdf icon PDF 42 KB


There was no such business